Working-suspension on 2-axled and 3-axled wagons

[Dimitris]

Hello.

I open this topic for people, WHO may want to use working-suspension on their 2-axled or 3-axled wagons, even if they don't use P87, and they use finescale RP25 Code88/110.

I assembled the leaf-springs for the stake-wagon Rms(0)31 of the DB from FLEISCHMANN. However, I don't have this wagon yet. The particular wagon has 7-leaf-springs. The assembly was difficult, as I had luck of soldering-water, during construction. It was difficult on folding the tighter in the middle of the leaf-springs. The tighter was taken from the end of the etched springs out of nickel-silver (last pic, red arrows). The springs are out of springiness steel. I did that for practise. In scale O, the assembly is easier.




I have found also that the leaf-springs mentioned, fit to my DB, Ibblps397 / Ibblps-v refrigerator wagon from LIMA HO 1991 (weathered), as it has 7-leafs from the prototype. I only have a photo of the prototype from LIMA catalogue 1991 of the SJ, which is exactly the same with the DB one. The measurements of the springs are the following:
- leaf-spring-pack: 7-springs for UIC wagons
- length: 1400mm = 16.092mm in HO




I am very happy (thank God), I assembled them, as they can be used to this wagon as well. So, I won't use them to the Rms(o)31. OK.

I also write the initials;
I: Kühlwagen in Sonderbauart
bb: Ladelänge 14 m und mehr
l: Nicht verriegelbare Transportschutzeinrichtung
p: (I couldn't find this)
s: Höchstgeschwindigkeit 100 km/h
-
v: El. Heizleitung 1000 Volt

I only have to use the following for the suspension of it:
1./ Federböcke (support of the hangers of the springs to the chassis)
2./ Doppelschacken (support of the springs)

Also for the support of the wheels:
1./ Achshalter / W-irons
2./ Mikro-niete / micronails fro FOHRMANN WERKZEUGE for the support of the Achshalter
3./ Achshaltersteg / protectors of the wheelsets not be thrown out of the W-irons.

[Dimitris]

The following is the assembly:

1. First the UIC-Achshalter / glisieres de suspension are assembled. For plastic chassis, they will be glued by Super-glue perpendiculary, then holes-0,3mm will be drilled for 0,3mm nails with 0,4mm-holes to enter, and then glued as well the same way (Mikroniete, FOHRMANN WERKZEUGE). The last part will make a better support.


2. Then the UIC-Federbock und Kappen und Doppelschacken, which are the hangers of the springs. The First ones Federböcke will be assembledon the cahssis by Super-glue and their ends soldered with the Doppelschacken.


3. Then, the assembly of the leaf-springs is done (above-mentioned), which is very difficult. It's better to use springiness-steel, however nickel/Silver may be used, as it's faster during soldering process. Their ends are folded (this is difficult, too for this scale), and then soldered to the Doppelschacken.

Attention: The number of the springs, i.e. 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, etc., depends on the type of the wagon used, that also depend on the length of the leaf-spring - pack. For example, the Z5 has 9-leafs (9-lägig), so the above-mentioned UIC-springs will not be used. I also have to go to Rentis, to measure Z5s leaf-spring-length.

4. The final assembly, will be like that, where the axle-box will slide on the Achshalter:


In the above first pic, the Achshaltersteg is not assembled (mentioned in the beggining). This will be soldered on the ends of the Achshalter. As you may also see on the cap of the axle-box, its "nose" will be cut, such as to be flat like the prototype Ζ5.

I give you some pics of the prototype.

An explanation: In Epoche I, II the 2-axled wagons had Gleitlager (sliding axle-boxes, turning on a "film" of oil).


However from Epoche III and after, the 2-axled wagons had and still have Rollenlager, roller-bearing axle-boxes.

(Glyfada, January 2013)

Thanx

Dimitris

[christo]

Dimitris,

What is the thickness of the nickel silver sheet that the leaf springs are etched from? They look indeed very fine.

christo.

[Dimitris]

According to the photograph, made in Glyfada, in Janauary 2013:

yellow arrow: W-Irons / Aschshalter
orange arrow: axle-box / Achslager
red arrow: axle-box - cap / Achslagerdose
green arrow: wheelset protector from thrown out / Achshaltersteg
white arrow: leaf-springs pack / Blattfederpackung
pink arrow: Tighter of the springs / Federbund (It has also a pin underneath to fit to the axle-box hole)
purple arrows: hangers of the springs and to the hanger of the one connected to the chassis (upper purple arrow) / Doppelschacken
grey arrow: hanger that is connected to the chassis (Federbock)

Thanx

Dimitris

[Dimitris]

What is the thickness of the nickel silver sheet that the leaf springs are etched from? They look indeed very fine.

Christo, hello.

The thickness of the nickel-silver depend on the type of the wagon used as well as the number of springs, i.e.
- The flat wagon S(m) 14 (for rail-transport) of the DB, has:
a. 13-leafs
b. spring-length: 1140mm = 13,10mm in HO
c. thickness: 0,15mm in nickel/silver (http://www.h0pur.de/: Ätzblech, Neusilber 0,15 mm für einen zweiachsigen Wagen)

- The closed wagon Pwgs41 of the DB, has :
a. 6-leafs (I think we have a similar/or same in OSE)
b. spring-length: 1650mm = 18,96mm in HO
c. thickness: 0,18mm in nickel/silver (http://www.h0pur.de/: Ätzblech Neusilber 0,18 mm für einen zweiachsigen Wagen)

- The UIC wagons have mainly 0,18mm. i.e.Federn UIC 11 Lagen Neusilber:
a. 11-leafs (I think we have a similar/or same in OSE)
b. spring-length: 1200mm/1400mm = 13,793/16,092mm in HO (this are standard UIC - lengths, mainly the 1400 used for 7/8-leafs, and the 1200-one to 8-leafs)
c. thickness: 0,18mm in nickel/silver (http://www.h0pur.de/: Ätzblech Neusilber 0,18 mm für einen zweiachsigen Wagen)

The ones I used, even in springiness steel are 0,18mm.

So they are between 0,15mm-0,18mm. The difference of 0,03mm is negligible.

I prefer also the nickel/silver as it's faster in the soldering-process. However, springiness-steel is stronger in strain from deflection as a material.

I give you 2 websites to see the springs:
http://www.wagenwerk.de/h0de/catalogsea ... %C3%A4tter (the springs are all made out of nickel/Silver by UDO BÖHNLEIN / FRÄNKISCHE MODELLBAHN SPEZIALITÄTEN)
http://www.h0pur.de/ (in this one, go to: Wagen HO/Güterwagen-Umbau Fahrwerke, and also in Wagen HO/UIC Güterwagen-Bauteile)

Thanx

Dimitris

[Dimitris]

Hello.

I present also here, my 2-axled brass tank wagons (Kesselwagen / wagon citerne) in HO of the type OCEM (Epoche II), made in 2007/08 from A.M.J.L. SARL in France (http://www.amjl.com/). In that period, it was manufacturing brass french models in HO and O. Now, it manufactures in O.

Even though, these 2 wagons had suspension with RP25 wheels (thinner than RP25 Code88), the suspension was with small coil-springs above the axle boxes. So, what I did, was that I removed the coil-springs and W-irons (Achshalter) as also the stable leaf-springs were cast on them, and fianlly the wheels.

So, the upgrade to these 2 wagons by P87 standards would be:

1./ NEW W-irons from D.I.T.Modell (GERMANY)(http://www.wagenwerk.de/h0de/fahrzeugba ... alter.html). STILL WAIT FROM WAGENWERK TO RECIEVE THEM. These are before the UIC era, and are of the era "Verbandsbauart" - in Epoche II (between 1920-1945/47). In shape they are narrower than the UIC ones. They are out of etched nickel/Silver (Neusilber geätzt)
2./ NEW hangers (Federböcke & Kappen) of the "Verbandsbauart" NOT the UIC, on which the leaf-springs are suspended (out of cast-brass / Messingguß). ALREADY HAVE THEM (http://www.h0pur.de/).
3./ NEW leaf-springs, 10 in Number (10 lagig) out of springiness steel (Federstahl) - of the "Verbandsbauart" NOT the UIC. I'll order them from BAHNSINN in April/May 2014. (http://www.h0pur.de/)
4./ NEW P87 wheels of the type: BA88 (Construction year: before 1972), with wheel-dia.: 1000mm = 11,5mm in HO. ALREADY HAVE THEM. When NEW W-irons are used the axle-length is reduced to 22,0mm (roughly 21,5mm of my wagons). However, I may did a mistake in the Wheel-dia., because the OCEM 2-axled wagons had 1050mm in dia. = 12,069mm in HO. (http://www.club-proto-87.com/crbst_19.html) I have to check that for sure... Neverthelless, I use the ones I have, and if the buffer-height is on the same level with the other wagons, then would be OK.
5./ I have also soldered a hook (out of 0,3mm cast-brass wire) underneah the coupling-hook for the protection of the parts of the bufferplank according to the prototype.

The rest of the parts, that are functional and don't need any change, are the following:
1./ The french axle-boxes of the Epoche II (Gleitlager) - out of cast brass (Messingguß). I WILL MAKE SOME PICS OF THEM.
2./ The springs-buffers (out of brass / Messing) of the type: "De Dietrich", constructed in 1931 (buffer-length: 590mm = 6,782mm in HO, bufferplate-dia.: 400mm = 4,6mm in HO) - ALREADY CAST FROM THE COMPANY.


3./ The french screw-couplings (out of brass / Messing) - ALREADY INSTALLED WITH COIL-SPRINGS FROM THE COMPANY.
4./ The brake-system and air-hoses (out of brass / Messing) - ALREADY SOLDERED FROM THE COMPANY. However, some of the brake-system weren't soldered such as to be stiff, so I re-soldered them.

A./ This the first one - black in color from the company C.W.R. owned by the SNCF:
2011
2011
2011

B./ This the second one - green in color with black chassis from the company BRASSIER ET CIE in PARIS owned by the SNCF. The Word GRAP means wine in french:
2011
2011
2011
2013
2013

With the progress and completion of these 2 wagons by P87 standards, I will post more.

Thanx

Dimitris

[Dimitris]

Hello.

The pics of the axle-boxes (Achslager) with the P87 wheels, as I promised to you. That is before it is assembled to the w-irons (Achshalter), and before the leaf-springs (Blattfedern) assembly.





Thanx

Dimitris

[BarbaPanagos]

thanks Dimitri,
although my models are never going to have such a treatment , it's always a pleasure to see your work


...

[Dimitris]

Thanx very much Panagioti.

The work is a "pain" , but I enjoy it!

I actually love the french brass wagon manufacturers, i.e.
http://www.amjl.com/
http://www.brassline.fr/
http://www.haxomodele.fr/?page=Echelle% ... 20%28HO%29
http://www.jarry-modelereduit.fr/wagons.html
http://benoit.semblat.free.fr/

And the ones that give brass parts for detailing:
http://www.amf87.fr/prestashop/

I love brass train models a lot!

Dimitris